Greetings Operatives! In this episode Rob and Don discuss the ways in which the reality has come to mirror Cyberpunk fiction. It’s 2016, and in the 1980’s Cyberpunk promised us Netrunning, Posergangs and Rockergirls! What did they get right? What did they get wrong? We also discuss why AKB48 are the perfect girl group, For-Profit Prisons and the glorious show that is Max Headroom! So jack into the net and let your avatar soar into the Department of Nerdly Affairs!
Closing Music: Ode to Joy performed by Oliver Eckelt
Show Notes:
African American Culture
Cyberpunk
New Star Trek Series Premiers January 2017
William Gibson
Bruce Sterling
Walter John Williams
Greg Bear
Cyberpunk RPG
Pewdiepie (video)
Fred (video)
AKB48
Baby Metal
3 ways the Japanese entertainment industry keeps idol singers from dating
Hatsune Miku (video)
Vocaloids
My Girlfriend Got a Virus (lyrics because they’ve taken down the song)
Most American Pop Written by 2 Guys
American Flag
Rifftrax
Macross Plus
Datamining
Facebook and Polarization Study
Campus Activists Weaponize Safe Spaces
Posergangs
Horse Race Journalism
Max Headroom Promo Video
Max Headroom Episode One
League of Legends
“The Wizard” (video trailer)
The Wizard – Nintendo Powerglove (video)
Esports
Judge Dredd
Telephone Booth Stuffing
Ray J. Johnson
Uber
West Virginia’s Water Crisis
For Profit Prisons
Is Technology Making Society Safer?
EH: The Broad Street Pump (sanitation)
World’s Largest Clone Factory
Insurance company now offers discounts — if you let it track your Fitbit
Insurance Monitoring Drivers
First, I want to complain that there were no trigger warnings to your episode.
I first was confused by your definition of Cyberpunk. It seems like any kind of dystopian
science fiction was fitting your description. For me cyberpunk has to definitively be dominated by computer technoloy.
Johnny Mnemonic for example. Which you didn’t mention. The Matrix, which you didn’t mention (probably because they both starred Keannu Reeves. Is that why you also neglected to mention “Bill and Ted” when trying to describe fads like phone booth stacking? What’s with the Reeves hatred. Is Keannu the Miley Cyrus of this podcast? I digress.
SNOW CRASH. Arguably the first Cyberpunk novel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash
I knew that we were headed for disaster when my friend told me he couldn’t wait to be plugged into the machine like they do in the Matrix. I had to sit there and quadruple take until I got to explain “You know the whole point is to FREE yourself from that right?” He didn’t get it. But knowing that he’s tossed out his gaming systems about five years ago suggests that maybe he’s understanding what I mean now.
Judge Dredd is NOT cyberpunk. It is not an orderless society. It is a society based on hyper order. It is also not a computerized society. It is a society that has computers. You might as well consider Paranoia the Role Playing game cyber punk, that’s closer. But if you’re going that far, why not Logan’s Run? Even still, I would argue such classics are examples of dystopic science fiction, or in Dredd’s case apocalyptic science fiction (let’s be honest Judge Dredd is Mad Max in techno-cities) not cyberpunk.
To be true cyberpunk there’s that singularity moment where human beings are wetware. That’s what created cyberpunk from Neal Stephenson on. I mean One could argue the earliest true cyberpunk comic was Deathlok and movies Robocop because there’s an integration of wetware with electronic hardware going on.
GREAT conversation. I’ve been flat on my back all week with sciattica. It feels good just listening in.
>I first was confused by your definition of Cyberpunk. It seems like any kind of dystopian
science fiction was fitting your description.
Sometimes it’s tough to anticipate how other folks are going to interpret the ideas that are so clear in one’s own mind. For both me and Rob, the RTG Cyberpunk RPG is the definitive take on the genre. But there’s plenty of room for interpretation with topics like this. Case in point:
>For me cyberpunk has to definitively be dominated by computer technoloy.
That’s a little more narrow than my take, but I can see it. For me, what makes cyberpunk different from other sci-fi distopias is that technology comes about that superceeds our ability to deal with it. The computer bit is a biggie; that we can connect ourselves directly to it, and in doing so we bring about a big change in humanity…. redefining what it is to be human, creating the problem of wether an AI is alive or not…. stuff like that.
Bit there are a LOT of permutations, and examples. I try not to get too wrapped around the axle about definitions, ‘cos I find folks get too caught up in pegging exactly what something is, as opposed to studying the thing itself…. but definitions can be useful for starting the discussion.
>Johnny Mnemonic for example. Which you didn’t mention. The Matrix, which you didn’t mention (probably because they both starred Keannu Reeves.
Hmmmm…. “Johnny Mnemonic” is one of the more classic examples of cyberpunk…. both the book and the film…. and there’s a lot of it in the RTG game, so for me it’s kind of assumed in my thoughts. “The Matrix” is a little trickier…. for me it’s not “pure” cyberpunk (remember that I don’t like to get too caught up in the definitions) because it’s more a “robot apocalypse” sort of thing. The VR bit is a cyberpunk standby, and a robot apocalypse is a type of cyberpunk story…. but I think something like the Matrix is better suited for other discussions. (Part of that is ‘cos the presence of robot overlords is an external threat, and I associate cyberpunk with more internal/existential threats.)
>Is that why you also neglected to mention “Bill and Ted” when trying to describe fads like phone booth stacking? What’s with the Reeves hatred. Is Keannu the Miley Cyrus of this podcast? I digress.
HAW! Bill and Ted will come up at some time…. mostly ‘cos I consider it to be the best time travel story ever. (‘Cos it’s the only one where the heroes realize they can cheat, and go ahead to a point where they already won.)
>SNOW CRASH. Arguably the first Cyberpunk novel.
Yeah! That’s another classic. I seem to recall that it keeps coming up as a potential movie, but things always fall through last minute.
>I had to sit there and quadruple take until I got to explain “You know the whole point is to FREE yourself from that right?” He didn’t get it. But knowing that he’s tossed out his gaming systems about five years ago suggests that maybe he’s understanding what I mean now.
Hee heee…. I think the idea appeals to a lot of people because most people see escaping from toil as THE goal in life.
>Judge Dredd is NOT cyberpunk. It is not an orderless society. It is a society based on hyper order. It is also not a computerized society. It is a society that has computers.
Dredd is another one that skirts the edge of “pure” cyberpunk. t’s a mechanized society…. sentient robots perform most jobs, which is why there’s 97% unemployment…. which is why so many citizens get caught up in weird fads and crime: they’re bored…. which is how the Judges came to power…. The technology surpassed society’s ability to deal with it, leading to a breakdown and extreme reaction. So yeah; I consider it a kind of cyberpunk, but moreso it’s own thing.
>You might as well consider Paranoia the Role Playing game cyber punk, that’s closer.
Again; I think it has it’s origins in the same branch of the sci-fi family tree as pure ‘punk, but the threat is more an external one, so it feels more standard dystopian to me.
>if you’re going that far, why not Logan’s Run?
I think you could make the argument, but like you said; it’s more a straight up apocalyptic sci-fi story. At least it feels that way. (Maybe if we knew more about the City of Domes…. the TV show bends more towards they cyber-punky, but even then it’s still more apocalyptic.)
>To be true cyberpunk there’s that singularity moment where human beings are wetware. That’s what created cyberpunk from Neal Stephenson on.
There can be…. that’s a big defining bit for a lot of critics as to what makes something cyberpunk. (Does that mean “Frankenstein” is cyberpunk?) For me there has to be that doubt; the debate of man vs machine, to make it truly punk. “The Six Million Dollar Man” is more a superhero/action story ‘cos the bionics have very little downside. Steve is still Steve; despite the rebuild. The book it’s based on is more cyberpunk ‘cos it gets into the problems…. physical and psychological…. that come from the rebuild.
>I’ve been flat on my back all week with sciattica.
Ouch. Is that something new? (Naproxin E is good. But it has to be the “E” and don’t plan anything for the rest of the day….)
Don C.